just read in the newspaper that some 54% of americans favor creationism and diss darwin.
.
i know, never trust a stat you haven't faked yourself, but... is creationism (especially yec) really that wide spread in the us?
Okay, Tetra stood in for the Funky-one. If that is the issue, then I am all for teaching evolution in the science class and mums the word on God, no problem there.
Here's my question then, is there any place in the science class, or should it be in some other class, or should it be taught at all, that is origins of everything/cosmology. And if it is taught/discussed, does God get mentioned then?
with all the discussion here about the dangers of religion, its morality issues, and so on i thought it would be interesting to have a discussion (especially given the large population of science oriented folks on this board) where we discuss the same issues with respect to science.
now this is not meant to be some i want to go back to the dark ages thread, but more so that recognition that there are moral, ethical, and hell survival issues with science that need to be addressed.. michael crichton as most know is both a famous author and an extremely bright individual who attended harvard medical school, in his novel jurrassic park he raised some issues with science and its dangers: .
"jurassic park was intended to warn the general public concerning the inherent dangers of biotechnology first of all, but also science in general.
SNG,
Thanks for the reply.
Just in case anyone is wondering, I ask this stuff because I seriously think about it and wonder what other people think, not as a launching pad for me to advance any set of beliefs.
with all the discussion here about the dangers of religion, its morality issues, and so on i thought it would be interesting to have a discussion (especially given the large population of science oriented folks on this board) where we discuss the same issues with respect to science.
now this is not meant to be some i want to go back to the dark ages thread, but more so that recognition that there are moral, ethical, and hell survival issues with science that need to be addressed.. michael crichton as most know is both a famous author and an extremely bright individual who attended harvard medical school, in his novel jurrassic park he raised some issues with science and its dangers: .
"jurassic park was intended to warn the general public concerning the inherent dangers of biotechnology first of all, but also science in general.
Terry,
Thanks for the link, very, very cool, I am saving that one!
BD
with all the discussion here about the dangers of religion, its morality issues, and so on i thought it would be interesting to have a discussion (especially given the large population of science oriented folks on this board) where we discuss the same issues with respect to science.
now this is not meant to be some i want to go back to the dark ages thread, but more so that recognition that there are moral, ethical, and hell survival issues with science that need to be addressed.. michael crichton as most know is both a famous author and an extremely bright individual who attended harvard medical school, in his novel jurrassic park he raised some issues with science and its dangers: .
"jurassic park was intended to warn the general public concerning the inherent dangers of biotechnology first of all, but also science in general.
Tetra,
Thanks for the reply, very cool stuff as always and plenty of food for thought.
I'll offer that goat on the hibachi tonight to your benevolence.
BD
just read in the newspaper that some 54% of americans favor creationism and diss darwin.
.
i know, never trust a stat you haven't faked yourself, but... is creationism (especially yec) really that wide spread in the us?
Why do you continue to pretend that that is the issue in question?
Okay, precisely and concisely, what exactly is the issue in question? Frame it as tightly as you can.
just read in the newspaper that some 54% of americans favor creationism and diss darwin.
.
i know, never trust a stat you haven't faked yourself, but... is creationism (especially yec) really that wide spread in the us?
to pretend that there is some real dispute over evolution occurs
That's not completely true, the Vatican for example has stated that evolution appears to be very probable, the dispute is whether evolution is a purely natural phenomena or whether there was some control by something involved.
People ;may always fill the areas of their ignorance with a god-of-the-gaps. That is no excuse for encouraging ignorance.
Hmm, so belief in a God or even the possibility of a God equals ignorance, well there are some pretty brilliant ignorant people out there I guess as there are some pretty bright people that think there is a God. Even Carl Sagan when pushed would not discount the possibility of a God. But I think it equally ignorant to in one breath say, oh, we don't have all the answers yet, but God however is certainly not a possible answer.
I have an issue with them lying about the evidence in order to push their belief system on innocent children.
Children as much as I would like them to be totally innocent are not going to be, they are victims of propaganda from day one so I'm not going to weep about these innocents being bludgeoned with creationist propaganda. As I said above, science should be taught in science class, I have no problem with that, and it should be taught with the self correcting issue fully explained as well (hmm, self correcting, new light, sounds similar to me) so that they understand what they are taught today might not be what scientists believe 50 years from now.
So I agree with you, evolution does occur, I don't think all people that believe in God deny evolution, certainly the largest single demonination the Catholic Church has supported the idea that evolution is indeed a "fact".
But good grief, all this gnashing of teeth over somebody wanting to say, hey maybe God created everything via evlolution rather than, well, were not really sure how the whole thing got started, big freaking deal. I thought the ideal was exposing people to alternate views and letting them sort it out, isn't that what we preach here at the forum, read, think, expose yourself to everything, atheism, hinduism, naturalism, whatever and sort it out, but I guess that only applies in certain situations eh?
just read in the newspaper that some 54% of americans favor creationism and diss darwin.
.
i know, never trust a stat you haven't faked yourself, but... is creationism (especially yec) really that wide spread in the us?
Funky, you really need to come to grips with the idea that people believe in God, always have, probably always will, and until they show in a lab how the universe originated, or for that matter, how biological life originated people are going to see God as a viable option. I'm on the fence, this life, this world is just wierd enough that there really might be a God, I have no problem with that if people want to believe that.
Seems to me we have done fine with a religious element in our society, science has progressed, we have developed complex societies, etc. I think the dangers of people thinking that God created the universe are greatly overstated.
yes i know the standard answer - they want to sell books but hang on a minute.. .
something that has always bothered me is that the average jw is incapable of explaining some of the most basic teachings without a wt book in hand.
after all those years, all that time, all those meetings, why is it so hard to understand and teach to someone else?
By the way, Laborde, how about one book? The Bible.
yes i know the standard answer - they want to sell books but hang on a minute.. .
something that has always bothered me is that the average jw is incapable of explaining some of the most basic teachings without a wt book in hand.
after all those years, all that time, all those meetings, why is it so hard to understand and teach to someone else?
Laborde, welcome to the forum. Hope to hear more from you.
you all have been so helpful in the past with these things...and i have another "how to deal" question.... ok, we have been faded for a while now.
we have pumkins out for halloween, as well as fun decorations...the problem is..we got an anniversary card today in the mail from some old witness friends where we used to live...they wish they could visit...they are prone to drop by un announced...so..have any of you had any sucess of "warning" old witness friends that you have changed?.
we are still trying not to get disfellowshiped for family reasons.
To be honest, I don't give it a thought, I just let them deal with it however they want to. I spent so much time having to worry about other's sensibilities that I just said to heck with it.
